March 1, 2009, 7:48 pm by dc-agape.

Why is it that conversing with other religions is so much easier than with fundamental christians?  I have numerous friends who are Buddhist, Jewish, and Muslim.  Each is open to the fact that their lifestyle is not the only one on the planet.  Yet when it comes to many christians any disagreement comes down to “you’re going to hell”.

I have a new commenter on this blog who happens to be a Muslim from an Asian nation (and I mean South Asian).  The conversations that we have had have been quite free of emotions and condemnation.  I hope that this will continue, even though it will be quite some time before I return to the Qur’an.  And I might not be being far with only covering the al-Fātihah, at the moment. 

During my post on the introduction to the Holy Qur’an I received this reply:

I am not familiar with Muhammad Ali translation—generally Yusuf Ali and his commentary are the most popular. Mohammed Asad and his commentary are also sometimes referred to.

1) Division of Quran—I am not a scholar–just very average muslim. For us the division of Quran into 30 parts (Juz) is very helpful because it allows us to read/recite the Quran in a month (particularly helpful in Ramadan month) The other type of division that is helpful in understanding the Quran and its context is the Mecca/Medina division. Most of the Quran was revealed in Mecca–these are the earlier revelations and are more general/spiritual and are mostly towards the back (Surah 114,113–onwards) The Quran can be read this way as it has no beginning or end (and would recommend to those unfamiliar with Islam) The Medina Surahs are longer and contain a lot of “Law”–legal aspects such as divorce laws, inheritance, conduct of war etc. —But it also contains a lot of spiritual guidance.

2) Spiritual force–The Quran is a guidance. (The last of the many guidance/revelations). Perfection itself is not the goal but the STRIVING for the betterment of “self”/”soul”. To make mistakes is part of the learning process–what is important is that we continuously strive for “God-consciousness” (Tawheed). To strive for moral and ethical values.

3) Abrahamic religion–You will notice that Quran is actually very close to the Torah and Judaism. (Not the OT the way chrisitans understand it) Both Judaism and Islam have an emphasis on Justice and Law is a part of that. (Halaka/Sharia=path)

Other similarities between Judaism and Islam.

G-D is One, Unique, Indivisible and in Islam, Genderless.

Mankind is born innocent. There are stages of spiritual growth Nafs (arabic), Nefesh (Hebrew) =”self”/Soul.

Our conduct on earth is important. It determines our future destiny.

You are correct–though we have respect for previous revelation, particularly the biblical Prophets, we understand that the texts have been corrupted over time.

4) The Quran is not a “sound-byte” friendly text. It requires intellectual engagement and thought. Here is another Surah

Surah 109
You who reject faith (Kafirun)
I do not worship what you worship
And you do not worship what I worship
I am not a worshipper of what you worship
You are not a worshipper of what I worship
To you be your way and to me mine.

Intellectual engagement means that we must ask questions. The Quran frowns upon blind belief. The Pursuit of Knowledge is important in understanding the Quran and its guidance.

I do understand that this was a rather long reply to my post.  But I would be interested in hearing my commenter’s point of view on the other two points that I used. 

The two of us have discussed the seventh point about the purity of the Qur’an.  Without a doubt it is the best unadulterated Holy Text.  But trust me, from a gay Atheist perspective that does not mean that it is supernatural.  It just means that the followers of that tradition have gone to great strides to keep the text from becoming useless babble.

We are both slightly confused about the distribution of Islamic movements (or schools) in the US.  With two-thirds of the Muslims in the US being foreign born and few is any US seminaries accepted by the traditional Muslim society, it becomes even more confusing.  It is clear that the Muslims here in the US have not had enough time to create/diverge from the mainstream European/Middle Eastern faith.  This is actually a good thing in that it requires the Shia and the Sunni Muslims, at least here in the US, to get along.

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March 1, 2009, 7:04 pm by dc-agape.

I get my first flame comment:

The Word of God was written by mortal men, and it was a homosexual who transcribed it in the King James Version. It is certainly baised against women and God has no biases against women. Gal. 3:28 says God has not respect to gender. You are trying to prove that God’s word is a lie, is to beed into your fancy that you know more than God. You are deceived because God created the devil and angels and also your god Allah who is another form of satan. Don’t be deceived and perish with your god, because all non beleivers will be cast into the lake of fire.

I will warn anyone else who thinks that this type of useless fear mongering and bigotry will change what I say or do…forget it.

This was my response to the comment:

First of all, you might want to read the truth about the King James Version. Second, I do not use the KJV. See my post on the NIV. Third, without the “god bias” that you have…of course I know more than a non-existent figment of imagination. Third, I am an Atheist; I do not have a god. Fourth, read your own Word of God, the lake of fire is permanent destruction.

Please be careful what you leave as a comment on this site.  I am well versed in the Word of God.  I have read the entire book three times and I have Pradis software that can help me find any verse in the Bible.  The purpose of this experiment and my blog is to point out where the Traditions of Men have over-ridden the Word of God.  If you feel threatened by this…it might be because of your own personal lack of knowledge about your own personal religion. 

Truthful honest commentary about my interpretation of these Holy Books will be greatly accepted.  I may have misses some subtly that you are aware of.  But condemning me “to the lake of fire” is useless.  Read my six part Biblical topics of Hell to understand why.

If you feel that I should clarify or expound upon a subject feel free to let me know.  But be prepared for me to respond in a manner that you do not expect.  I do not have the “god bias” and my interpretation will not be favorable to that bias.  But my response will make you think, and I hope that it will help you clarify your own arguments for or against a specific topic.

Posted in The Usual Suspects, Comment Policies, State of Mind, Introduction | Print | No Comments »

March 1, 2009, 9:05 am by dc-agape.

Image by KaDeWeGirl via Flickr

I know that I have mentioned this numerous times when the disciples or Jesus misrepresents a quote from the Old Testament.  But I believe that a few verses from the Word of God that condemn the practice should be posted on.  YHWH is extremely harsh on those who add or subtract from the Word of God.  As a result, I find it quite ironic that most “christians” do exactly that.  They cherry pick which sins are “worse”, they ignore “love thy neighbor”, or they believe that the Nicene council actually picked the books of the Bible without having an earthly agenda.  Whether you want to admit it or not, fractures were occurring in the “church” in 325CA.  These men may have chosen the books accurately or they may have had their own opinions about what was holy and what was not.  Most of the Nag Hammadi Library, if not all were, written before this time.  When a group of people go around destroying every copy of “heretical” material they find, you have to wonder why.  Was it because these works were not “christian” enough or was it because these works were not in line with the “mainstream” (governing) body of the church?

But I want to let you know the warnings recorded about changing the Word.  Oddly YHWH only brings the subject up once:

Deut 4:2 Do not add to what I command you to do and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

This verse is very cherry picked out of the Christian doctrine.  It very clearly states that what is written is all that is required.  No apologies, no inspirations, no commentaries are required, all these do is add to the Word of God.  It also clearly states that every command from God must be followed.  No cherry picking!  If it says to stone someone, you stone someone.  If the Word of God says to not work on Sunday, you don’t work on Sunday.  End of statement, that’s it, whatever is written in the Word of God must be followed.

Now how do we know if someone has added to the Word of God?  Agur in the Book of Proverbs has that answer:

Proverbs 30:6 Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

That is exactly what happened in Mark 16:6-20.  The addition does not fit: the vocabulary, style, and theological content are different than the rest of the Gospel of Mark.  Worse is that the story changes.  In the 8^th verse Mary tells no one, yet in the 10^th verse she does.  This particular lie is proved easily.  But what it does more than anything is corrupts the Word of God.  The fact that we have not thrown it out only shows that “christians” are not obeying the Word of God.

But, I am sure I will hear that “this was the Old Testament, that commandment does not apply in the Jesus’ teachings”.  The part about “in Jesus’ teachings” is correct, but Peter, the unknown author of Hebrews, and Paul has some very harsh word to say about it.  Both the Corinthian and the Galatian churches had problems with false teachings.  Because of these two churches Paul has a lot to say about changes in the gospel.  But I am going to start with the two simpler ones.

Peter (or let’s assume it is Simon Peter) has this to say about changes in the Word of God:

2^nd Peter 3:16 He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters.  His letters contain some thing that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do other Scriptures to their own destruction.

Here Peter is warning about the distortion of the Word of God.  I love his description of the type of person that does this…“ignorant and unstable”.  That is priceless!  You can tell he does not like these types of people, those who distort the Word of God.  But he also warns about the outcome…”their own destruction”.  To say the least this is much harsher than the YHWH’s attitude in the Old Testament.

What does the author of Hebrews have to say about the matter?  His message is not as straight forward as Peters but it is full of the same types of danger:

Hebrews 2:1 We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.

Here his warning is about being complacent.  Christians…you can’t just sit back and be saved.  You have to be attentive to what you have heard, not from the Traditions of Men, but from the Word of God.  Otherwise you will drift away.  Remember that drifting away here means giving up your salvation!  Losing salvation is possible, read Hebrews 6:4-6, if you don’t believe me.

So what about Corinth and Galatia?  In Corinth Paul has to write two letters.  In the first he warns about going beyond what is written:

1^st Cor 4:6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written”.  Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

Here division between the teachings of Apollos and Paul were already forming divisions.  But Paul warns that: there is no difference between the two and being prideful of which person you follow is wrong.  And isn’t that exactly what christians do today?  I mean we even use the term Calvinism, Protestant all derive from Martin Luther, Catholicism is just one different man, the Pope.  So it is clear that today’s christians have fallen into the trap that Paul, Peter, and Hebrews warn about.

It gets worse in Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians:

2^nd Cor 11:3-4 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.  For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus  other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it  easily enough.

Notice that Paul warns about more than one Jesus, more than one spirit, and more than one gospel.  But it is clear, in his writing, that there is only one of each!  So here Paul is warning about how easy it is to pervert the Word of God.  This is just beginning in Corinth, it is much worse in Galatia.

Paul covers the Galatian problem here in Gal 1:6-9.  It is too long for me to repeat here, so please read it carefully in the link.  Someone in Galatia is “perverting” the Gospel.  And the people are falling for it due to confusion.  Paul brings down what Southern Baptist would call “hell and brimstone” on those responsible, even if it was an angel of heaven.  But the biggest thing to take away from this section is that Paul warns about more than one Gospel.  To Paul and Peter there was only one Gospel.  How then can we have so many denominations in the world today?  It is very simple, people have added and subtracted from the Word of God!  The bible is so corrupt with the Traditions of Men that the Word of God has been changed.  If the Word of God ever existed in the first place, it is now just Traditions of Men and will not save anyone’s soul. 

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March 1, 2009, 7:34 am by dc-agape.

During the years 1946-47 a few Bedouin tribesman found documents in a cave in the vicinity of the Wadi Qumran (north-west area of the Dead Sea – Today’s Good News).  The pix from this site are great, and the map section places the scrolls location quite nicely.  The rest of the site is somehow of a christian nature, even though the Dead Sea Scrolls are certainly from the 1^st century BCE.  We know the scrolls production date due to the topics of particular interest to the authors of the Scrolls.  Nothing of Jewish history is recorded in these Scrolls after ~63 BCE.  The accuracy of the information in the Scrolls up to 63BCE is uncanny, if the Scrolls had been written closer to the present era (0 AD), why would the authors not mention any of the events of that time?

It is clear from the location of the Wadi and Khirbet Qumran and from the politically charged documents in the Dead Sea Scrolls that the authors were not an insulated group like the Essenes (Jewish Encyclopedia).  First, the distance from the Qumran site to Jerusalem was 16 miles (telusplanet.net), compare that to Jesus traveling from Capernaum to Jerusalem (from this map you can see that it is over 90 miles).  So 16 miles outside of Jerusalem is not a place of insulation.  But even more interesting is that the Essenes were a sect of Pharisees where as the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls favored the Sadducees (Edward Cook’s blog).  Since Edward Cook is one of the authors of the New Model (on the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls) his blog is of great interest in determining who the authors of the Dead Sea Scroll were.

Most of the Scrolls are fragmentary, but due to duplication among the scrolls, at least the gist is available.  Can you imagine the amount of work it has taken to put these fragments together?  And yes, continually corrections are made to the organization of the scrolls.  But many are in good shape.  I will start with the Damascus Document.  This document has survived from other sources.  This extra source is from a Cairo Synagogue storeroom.  Solomon Schechter found these additional copies in 1896-1897.  Previously they have been called the “Fragments of a Zadokite Work” (1910) and The “Zadokite Document” (1954) re-edited by Chaim Rabin.  Both of these links come from the Taylor-Schechter Genizah Research Unit of the Cambridge University Library.

The most recent title is that of the Damascus Documents, given by Millar Burrows.  This particular document was written between 100 and 75BCE.   It seems contented to the Book of Jubilees, the Charter of a Jewish Sectarian Association, the Temple Scroll, and the Secret of the Way Things Are.  All four are found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.  As a result these will be the first five documents that I will cover over many posts.

Posted in Dead Sea Scroll, Introduction | Print | 4 Comments »